Hello everybody,

I know that probably I should post it on the wiki, but this forum is more friendly and its layout is much more usable then the wiki, so, let start with the question.

Today I've rewatched TSCC episode Dungeons & Dragons in which we see some Derek's flashforward that show when he was captured and interrogated.

When he was released (who left the hatchet?) and returns to Connor's camp he suddenly meet Cameron and scream out "Metal!!".

Now he clearly know that she was a termie (it was probably that one who tortured him, that it's also the reason why he hate so much her) but: when this episode should be placed?

I mean, in "Allison from Palmdale" we see Cameron interrogating Allison in order to infiltrate Connor's camp, we suppose that her infiltration failed, John captured and scrubbed her.

But Derek know her before her reprogramming (does he known Allison?) that's why he yell out "Metal!".

Should we suppose this timeline?

- Derek captured
- Allison captured
- Cameron try to infiltrate Connor camp and realize that she need the bracelet
- Cameron interrogate Derek
- Cameron infiltration has partial success
- Derek was freed (by Cameron?)
- Derek meet scrubbed Cameron

???

Good question, you are not the only one who trys to understand the timelines. I can't answer it but i have a hint: ask JF.

Never thought about that...
I don't know exactly what, but i feel there's something that doesn't fit...how much time Derek spent in the house ? I guess it was enough to the terminators capture Allison and interrogate her, but even in "Allison from Palmdale", it passed many days before the interrogatory...

A very good threat my friend .I was really wondering that too.
So ,see how i think.

My guess is "yes"
I think that the first is the capture of Allison that is way Derek knows that she couldn`t be human anymore,because otherwise i don`t know how he knows that she is a "Metal"
After that is Derek captured.
Maybe I`m missing something but why do you thing that Cameron is the one who tortured him.And

Why do you think that Cameron has tried to infiltrate the camp twice.When she was with Allison she said -"you are going to send me there and they would of known what I was".So i suppose that as i machine Cameron would want to gather some info first and then infiltrate (at least that was I going to do )
So i thinks the timeline is capture of Allison of which Derek is aware of,the capture of Derek,Cameron infiltrate the camp with the info she collect from Allison but something goes wrong and she is captured and reprogramed ,Derek was freed and Derek meet Cameron
However you can be right about Cameron torturing Derek because I don`t really get it why he hates her so much,but maybe he just hates machines after all they did kill his brother.
Hmm what do you think ...

Does no one remember the line from "To The Lighthouse" when Cameron just rescued Derek? Well I will refresh everyone's memory.

Derek Reese: Why'd you come in after me?
Cameron Phillips: You know the location of the safe house... John's location. If they tortured you...
Derek Reese: That would never happen.
Cameron Phillips: It has before.

There are really only 2 explanations for her knowing that.

1. She did in the safe house, and some how remembers despite the scrubbing and reprogramming.

2. She learned about it after Derek return to the nuclear planet after going back to the tunnel base.

Oh and about the safe house the music playing i really believe that was Allison's mother used to listen to (the name escapes me at the moment). If that was the same music,then Allison would have been caught 1st. Cameron finds out about Allison's life, (when Allison goes missing, Derek learns of this). Cameron learns about the bracelets but may not know the location of the Connor camp.She tortures the location out of Derek. When they are "set" free sometime later after Cameron leaves to do her mission (which maybe leads her to be captured by John) Derek returns to tunnel base finds it burned out, he returns back the N-power planet, see's Cameron, know what she is and yells Metal.

Exactly.

That's why I think that it was Cameron that tortured Derek. It would explain also the hate he has after her.

Yes I think you reconstruction works well so:

1) Allison captured (however we don't know if: Derek known who Allison was and that she was captured)

2) Cameron interrogate Allison and found that she need her bracelet in order to enter the Connor's camp (she comes to that conclusion after she has found other resistance fighters with the same bracelets)

3) Derek captured and tortured by Cameron

4) Cameron infiltrate Connor's camp with Allison's bracelet but she is discovered, captured and formatted.

5) Derek is free (by whom? Really was Cameron after she tortured them to frees them up?), return first to his camp then to Connor's camp where he meet scrubbed Cameron and yell "Metal!".

It works.

There is only one weak point: why Allison was sealed on the carrier while Derek and his squad was in the house? It wouldn't be more logic for the interrogation, to keep them all in the same place? Maybe because Allison was a "higher" target due to her relationship with Connor and need a safer place where keep her locked?

However we have to suppose that the entire operation must be lasting months or at least several weeks. I think that the process to replicate Allison taken a lot of time then the other tasks (capture someone that will tell out the position of Connor's camp, infiltrate it and kill John) required less time.


Btw, that's was strange... the first time I watched the episode, I simply have not noticed the "inconsistency", I mean: "Why Derek yell out metal", probably because for me it was "clear" that she was metal.

It's a good thing to rewatch a show, most of the time you'll find things that you haven't noticed the first time.

P.S. Well there is also a "black hole": how John figured out that Cameron wasn't Allison and how he was able to capture her (maybe she actually completed her mission? And she was "leading" the resistance? You have a lot of reference that let suppose that nearly no one has seen John in person...).

The black hole is funny:

As Cameron said to Jesse in S02E19: "Telling me is the same as telling John" i thought she completed her mission.

Also she had access to the TDE with scanning her eyes and so she escaped to the past.

Maybe...

Yes, I had also the same thoughts even if her behaviour in the past is quite strange. For example: Why she simply doesn't killed John when she meet him at school (ok, probably because TSCC will be finished with the pilot )? Maybe she wants to gather as much information as possible? And why she overridden her directive to kill John in Samson & Delillah?

Also Sarah, quite at the end of the 2nd season ask her: "Why you are here?" firstly Cameron asnwers: "To protect John", but Sarah enquires further: "I mean why you are here in the past? Why John has put away you from him? Why you cannot protect John in the future? Maybe he doesn't want you around anymore?" and Cameron didn't reply... maybe John in the future is dead...

Also in D&D, as I noticed reading some page at the wiki, when a terminator goes bad, fter Cameron has destroyed it she tells to Derek: "Sometime THEY go bad" not, "Sometime WE go bad", maybe she was never scrubbed?

And pointing about this latest thing, I've found an interesting plot on the wiki:

What do you think about it?

It could be possible that Cameron wasn't lying while telling to Allison that some terminator want peace with the human. Maybe she killed her because she lied.

Maybe when Cameron reached John he was able to "change" her mind (ot maybe she fooled him) and she joined the resistance without being scrubbed (like the T1001, due metal termine cannot be reprogrammed).

Damn! A lot of questions and very few possibility to gain some answers...

Cameron was a killer terminator until she tried to infiltrate the camp where JC resists. JC captured her and manipulated her chip, he removes the mental limits that Skynet implements. Cameron told the young JC in S01E08 that he can took her chip for the traffic lights manipulation, and that it is not the first time he does it.

I think that there will be a love grown up between the future JC and Cam and then some circumstances force Cam to go into the past. Maybe that future JC died and than the resistance assumed that Cam has killed him.

I'm sure that Cam has tortured Derek in the future and he is angry against her because of the torture and he is also angry about himself because he gave secrets away to Cam under torture.

I am also sure that Cam joined the resistance AND that SHE was the leader of the complete resistance because future John died (because of illness and not because Cam killed him). Cam is the ideal leader and Cam was never wrong with any decision she made.

That's my fan fiction, but the only one who knows the truth is JF.

I see your point ,but if we connect the movies with the serial,which should be between T2 and T3,actually John Conner died from T-800 (Arnold Schwarzenegger).Skynet used there close relationship that they have ever since John`s childhood.